Facebook Live Event 8: Mythbusting Fact And Fiction

Published March 31, 2020 Views: 5


Ed clarifies some of the updates and additional restrictions from Scott Morrison that came through over the weekend. He also goes over some exercises in planning to look for new opportunities and prepare for the next phase.

To help your business navigate the COVID-19 crisis Employsure’s founder and Managing Director Ed Mallett is hosting live events on Facebook, to discuss the latest events, burning questions Employsure’s clients are asking and to offer business and management tips. At the end of every session, Ed will answer a few questions that come through the comment section.

Facebook Live Event 8: Mythbusting Fact And Fiction

  • Transcript

    Ed: Hi, everyone. Ed here. Just checking in on Monday. And as ever, it’s been a busy weekend, lots of news, lots of updates. Unfortunately, a bit of a lack of clarity as well that I’m gonna, hopefully, add some sense to over the next half an hour or so with you. So the plan for today is this, is that I’m gonna do a bit of myth-busting, to start off with, as to where we’ve got up to with various updates over the weekend. I’m then gonna go through some of the planning exercises we’re doing here as we try to shift into that next phase of planning and looking at opportunity. I thought it might be useful for you to hear a bit more about that. And then, finally, we’ll go on to the standard Q&A session.

    So myth-busting fact and fiction over the weekend. So I think a number of us were expecting some sort of greater lockdown over the weekend to be announced by Prime Minister Morrison. That didn’t happen in the end. Actually, he came out and really reinforced the concepts of social distancing, a couple of extra restrictions, for example, reducing the amount of people that could do group exercise, really quite narrow changes that may impact your business. And I’ll come back to that in a moment. But the general principle remains that you should be working from home by now if you can. If you can’t work from home, then you’re entitled to carry on work, subject to social distancing.

    There’s a bit of confusion around this new two-person rule and what that means for work. Our interpretation of it is that you can carry on work as usual. So I’ve currently got three people in my room here. We’re not prevented from doing that in the workplace, but we are practicing social distancing. We’re all one and a half meters apart. The room is big enough for us to be in here, and so forth. So the two-person rule doesn’t apply to internal workplace instances. The message from the Morrison government seems to be clear. As far as possible, he wants us to be carrying on working. So something I said to my teams overnight, I said, “Look, today, tradies will still be out there working. Retailers are gonna be retailing. Landscapers are gonna be out on the road landscaping.” All of that can carry on at the moment, subject, as far as possible, to social distancing.

    The exception to that remains those businesses that have been locked down. The list of which we’ve been through before. The only nuanced changes over the weekend, like I say, is that personal training businesses that were capable of doing 10-person boot camps on an outside basis have now been restricted to 2 people, including, it seems, the trainer. So, essentially, you can carry on private exercise sessions, but you can’t have boot camps, which will impact a number of businesses, I’m sure. So that’s the federal update.

    We’re in a somewhat frustrating position in Australia that we have been waiting to see if there’s any diversion from that amongst the states. We haven’t seen any yet. I’m hearing lots of rumor and innuendo, and I’ll stress, guys, don’t act on any of these things until it’s official. I, for example, have just received a message from one of our team in Tasmania saying that they’re apparently going into complete lockdown tonight, etc., etc. Nothing has been said yet, and it may get said during this, but nothing has been said yet that should alter your adherence to government advice as posted. So please don’t act on rumor and innuendo. It’s very, very risky to do so.

    I’ve seen some posts come up here where some people are saying that they’ve closed down their businesses and then had to reopen them once they had found out that, in truth, they weren’t restricted from operating. Don’t act on rumor. Go straight to the source. Use a relevant government website to see what the latest position is. Keep up to date on your local news and follow that. Don’t follow rumor and innuendo.

    A couple of other updates, just in terms of small business and packages, particularly with regard to employees. So we’re waiting for Treasurer Frydenberg to give an announcement on what sounds like it’s going to be a package relating to how businesses can continue on a funded basis to employ people through the crisis. The current position seems to be this, although the details are yet to be confirmed, that there will be a payment that looks like it’ll be $1,500 per fortnight, it’s roughly $37k per year, that you will be able to access in order to support ongoing employment of employees. That seems to be in addition to the BAS payment that was already in place. But it’s really unclear at this stage what the details are, how it will be paid, what the conditions of payment will be. So keep your eye on the news today. That’s a massive change in position for the government.

    On average, under the previous scheme, first of all, you have to be a business with turnover of less than 50 million to access it, but on average, you’re getting less than 10% of your staff wages paid through that old scheme. What this will do is shoot up to well over 30% of wages for staff. So a big change in policy here, guys, which should be good for businesses, but there are gonna be some terms and conditions attached that you’ll need to follow in detail to make sure you’re getting most out of whatever that incentive is. But certainly, from a business owner’s perspective, I’m quite excited about that. I really am. I’m looking at my computer screen, clicking for updates on the feed. Because what that means for me, potentially, is that it’s gonna cover something like 30% of my staff costs for a certain period, whatever the details are. Now, 30% of my staff costs coming back to me is a huge cash boost for the business and gives me a lot of cash protection. I’ve been working through spreadsheets, trying to find out how I was otherwise gonna cash preserve over the coming months, and it will be a real support if that has happened. So let’s keep our eyes on the news, and hopefully, we’ll get some good news about that later today.

    A couple of other more nuanced updates here in Australia. New South Wales’ long service leave, have a look at the change of rules on our employsure.com.au/coronavirus update. There’s also an update there as to the negotiated Changes to the Clerks award. So that covers administrative staff, particularly, that may be in your business, and there’s a change now in how they can work under the award that you should have a look at. Again, employsure.com.au/coronavirus.

    So those are some changes and updates, a bit of myth-busting. Let’s come back to that at the end of the session when we go to Q&A if there’s any questions that you have, rumors that you believe to be true about what’s happening in the workplace. We’ll go through those, and I’ll see if I can do some further myth-busting then for you.

    Just a quick one as to what we’re doing at Employsure. So, tomorrow, I’m going to post on here, perhaps a bit controversially, but I’m gonna post our internal document, which is a one-pager, which we call a why-how-what document. And the reason I’m gonna post it is you might find it useful to facilitate your COVID-19 planning as you work through the challenges that you face for your individual business. What it comprises is this, is that, here, as a business, with just about every project or everything that we’re doing, we have a one-page document that we call a why-how-what document. And what the key stakeholder for that project is required to do is to complete a one-page document that says why they’re doing what they’re doing, it says how they’re gonna do it, which is the strategy, and then, finally, it says what they’re gonna do, which are the plan items, the individual actions that they will take to implement the strategy.

    I’ve previously said on here, but just to repeat it for clarity, our why at the moment through COVID-19 is to ensure business continuity throughout the COVID-19 crisis. I’ve actually updated that though this morning, and I’ve changed it from business continuity to business success. And the reason I’ve done that is that I’m trying to reset the thinking here away from crisis management into future planning where we can hopefully move forward in a positive way coming out of this crisis.

    How are we gonna do that? What’s the strategy? I’ve previously said to you that our strategy here is simple. We said that we are going to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I’ve updated that, again, slightly today, and I’ve changed it from “Prepare for the worst and hope for the best” to “Prepare for the worst to plan for the best.” So we’re gonna start planning now, over the course of this week, for things that we might be doing and if the worst doesn’t come about. And it’s necessary as a business to start thinking in that way. Otherwise, you’re just going to end up looking at your toes and really not taking any of the opportunities that might be available to you over the coming weeks. You’ll get stuck in drama, stuck in crisis, stuck potentially in victim mode, and not make the most of any potential opportunity, which we’re starting to see more and more great examples of businesses pivoting and looking at ways in which they can survive this crisis and potentially even thrive.

    So that’s the why and that’s the how. What are we doing? I have explained to you previously that we are going through different stages in our thinking on this. Stage one is crisis management, which, for Employsure, started with trying to get as many of our workforce home as possible. The reason we did that was to minimize the chance of cross-infection. We are still experiencing volumes of demand for our service well in excess of normal demand. So we’re getting about four times as many advice inquiries as we normally get, and it was important to us to try and keep our advice team and related support services to that as healthy as possible in order to meet that demand. And we felt that the best way to do that was to send them home. We achieved that over the last couple of weeks. So the office behind me and our offices around the country is all but empty at the moment. It’s just a handful of people here now finishing up, closing up the offices, really, I felt for the coming weeks and potentially months. So that was stage one, doing that.

    We also needed to make sure our field teams, those that are out meeting small businesses day-to-day, were being looked after, within the context of government advice. And we’ve been continually updating them, communicating every day with them. We have a what we call a COVID committee meeting at 8:30 every morning internally to discuss the challenges that we are facing as a business and to deal with very tactical issues that are occurring day to day, individual circumstances where people have perhaps shown signs of illness, what do we need to do, who do we need to inform, and so forth, all of those questions. And I’d recommend that you do something similar to that on a consistent basis. Meet every morning, regardless of whether you feel the need to, and go through any tactical items that you need to deal with in that crisis management phase.

    At the next stage is the planning stage, which is I think we spend a lot of time talking about on here, starting to look at how you might reduce your costs in the business. For us, that has a subtitle really and that we are in the process of cash preservation, and planning has meant, first of all, delving into a budget document and putting in a scenario which is what we believe to be the worst-case scenario. What happens if we start doing business at this level 90%, 100%, below what we think we would normally be doing? What happens if we start to lose clients because of their financial circumstances at these heightened levels? We’ve played that out in a financial model, which puts us in a position where we understand what our gap is on a cash basis and that we then have to look at how we’re gonna bridge that gap and how we’re going to cover the cash gap that we may, if the worst occurs, suffer.

    And the first stage is that we tackled what we all low-hanging fruit, and for us, that means really trying to shift culturally from a business that, particularly for internal purposes, may have quite a generous culture in our cost spend, supporting employee activities, extra benefits, all of those sorts of things that we now need to change the mindset of our business to say, “No, we’re in cash preservation. You’re not going to see X, Y, and Z extra benefits.” It’s in the interest of the entire staff that we do that so that we don’t have to start looking at staff cost production at this stage. So you might have equivalent low-hanging fruit in your business that you should be looking at at this stage as a cash preservation rather than rushing to redundancy programs and so forth. Model out how much cash that that’s gonna save you, as we have done, where that’s phase one for us.

    The second phase will be saying, “Look, if, in a month’s time, sales have gone in the way in our worst-case scenario we have planned for, what are we then going to do?” I can’t answer that with accuracy at the moment, partly because I’m waiting to see what the government will do to support us. I can tell you that we will be doing all we can to avoid having to reduce any headcount here, but we’ll be trying to look after people as best as we can. Because when it comes to planning for the best, we need to make sure that we’re not losing talent. And then, when business does come back, that we’re not in a position to meet the demand of our clients, both new and old. So here’s a bit of an insight, guys, as to what we’re doing through the first two phases.

    And then the third phase is looking for opportunity, and I’m going to expressly deal with that tomorrow. The kind of things that we are looking at here is trying to pivot our service delivery model. We spend a lot of money each year on traveling, can we reduce that in some way? Trying to look at opportunities for how we market to new business. Can we reduce the cost of client acquisition? Some of the things that we’ve learned through some of our digital marketing during the crisis so far. Those are the sort of things that I’ll be addressing tomorrow, and we can talk about that then.

    So I’ll post later on this why-how-what document. I hope that that’s some use to you. It’s obviously an internal document, quite unusual to post that. It doesn’t include our financial modeling or our budget model or anything highly sensitive like that. It just gives you an overview of the process I’m going through mentally to try and keep myself aligned to looking at crisis management, planning, and then opportunity. Because absent of that, and again, Monday seems to be my bad day, weekends are pretty draining, I find, because I’m spending the time sitting, clicking on the news feeds, trying to understand what’s happening next. And the bit that I was really in a bad frame of mind about last night was when Scott Morrison sort of mumbled at the end of his speech that this is gonna go on for at least six months, which, to be told that, is a massive punch in the guts, frankly, to say, “We’re really saying that this level of lockdown or more is gonna go on for six months.” Are we really saying that restaurant and catering businesses won’t be operating over there by takeaway for six months?

    So all of these questions, it’s just swirling around. I don’t actually have a clear answer to, but I can say that, as a business owner, they left me lacking sleep last night, but I started to slip out of my mantra, worrying is not thinking and think clearly under pressure, and starting to think, “Oh, what on earth is gonna happen in six months’ time?” It’s not just to Employsure, but to all of our client base, what is the level of devastation gonna be? I’ve woken up this morning and tried to realign myself to that why-how-what thinking. I’ve been through the document again, reminded myself of what my task is. I can only control the controllables, and that’s what I’m focusing on doing. And I’d urge you all to be trying to follow that level of thinking as well so that you don’t slip off into the drama. You owe yourselves that, you owe your staff that responsibility to lead them through this challenging crisis.

    So I’m gonna now turn over to some questions and see if I can answer those for you. I would say this just before I do, one of the drums I’ve been banging, and I don’t think I can bang enough, is around the question of standing down workers. You’ve heard me say it here a number of times. I’m gonna repeat it again. A standing down worker is a very limited technical response to a stoppage of work that can carry out in Australia under the Fair Work Act. It’s being used far too colloquially by the media, by the government, and also, I’m starting to hear about other advisers using it far too broadly, in my view. Now, the reason I’m being quite cautious about this in saying, “You cannot just stand down workers because of a general slowdown in business,” is this, is that there is a risk in the future when all is said and done from this, that a staff member that you stood down, unilaterally, thinking you had the right to do it when you didn’t, turns around and sues you for wages for the period that you stood them down for.

    As of last night, I thought it might be easier if there was a broader lockdown for more and more businesses in different industries to use those stand down provisions to unilaterally put staff essentially on unpaid leave. The position this morning is relatively unchanged, meaning that lots of businesses cannot still stand down their staff under the Fair Work Act. They can seek to agree a period of unpaid leave with them, but stand down is a unilateral decision that they cannot do. Now, I know, speaking to our advisers that we’re in at the weekend, they were receiving a lot of calls from dentists, specifically, who are getting questions…sorry, who are being advised apparently that they can stand down their staff at the moment because they are being suggested to carry out more limited practice at the moment. They do not have a stoppage of work. Dentists are still permitted to work within the confines of social distancing and so forth, and in that context, there is not a way under the Fair Work Act that they can stand down their staff. To unilaterally stand down their staff, they run the risk of those staff members subsequently suing them for their wages if they do that.

    So call me conservative in that advice, but I would rather, as a business owner myself, understand what my risks are and manage my business in accordance with that risk than to carelessly, today, stand people down and then find out in six months’ time that I’m being sued for their wages just as I’m trying to bounce back. So there’s a bit of information just before we kick off into the questions just in case anyone wanted to ask that. I know it’s not just dentists that are being given this advice. I’d say, if you’re getting that advice from a group resource that may be a bit like this, maybe it’s an industry body or something that’s giving you some advice, maybe they’ve had a webinar, be careful not to take general advice on stand down. You need very specific professional advice on this.

    Over to you, Leigh. Any questions?

    Leigh: We do have a few questions. First off, is it okay for an employer who has an experienced full-time employee to drop their wages to a minimum wage?

    Ed: Can an employer with an experienced employee who’s getting paid above minimum award rate, can they drop their wages? The answer is no, not unilaterally. They would need to negotiate that with the employee, and they may agree to take a wage cut, which would see them go down to award level, but you can’t unilaterally do that.

    Leigh: Okay. And we’ve seen a few changes in the fitness industry, again, over the weekend. Michael has a question. Can a fitness business have trainers in the studio to do live streams?

    Ed: Can a fitness business have trainers in the studio to do live streams? Now, I’ve seen this happen quite a lot, and technically, the gyms are meant to be shut, but when they say shut, I read that as for public participation purposes. So I don’t have a problem. I don’t see a problem with people going into the studio to do live streams, subject to social distancing. It’s really not that different if you think about it, what we’re doing right here, now. As I said, we’ve got three people in the room here. That, on my reading of the government guidance, is an acceptable thing to do in order to keep work going. And that would be the same for fitness businesses as well, in my view.

    Leigh: Okay. A question from Janey. Can an individual volunteer to stand down even if the business hasn’t closed down?

    Ed: Hi, Janey. What that is if an individual is volunteering to stand down? Basically, what they are saying to you is, “I agree to go on unpaid leave.” It’s not technically a stand down. It’s a mutual agreement to go on a period of unpaid leave. In those circumstances, a couple of points. First of all, leave doesn’t accrue during a period of agreed unpaid leave, and second to that, it’s still unclear from the government whether those employees will get new start or not. It’s unclear if they go to get a new start, and it’s not known at the moment whether they’ll be told that they can’t have it because they’ve accepted a period of unpaid leave. In those cases, what we are recommending that the employer does with the employee is say, “Subject to you having the ability to get new start or any related assistance, then you will go on a period of unpaid leave. But if you don’t get it, then come back and have a chat with us.”

    Leigh: The next one is from Jackie. She runs a building business. Should they be allowing face-to-face appointments with their clients?

    Ed: A building business, building and construction, asking whether they can have face-to-face meetings with their clients. The answer is yes, if they can be done remotely. So if there was a way, for example, if it’s a project planning session that you could utilize Zoom, Skype, FaceTime rather than meet in person, then you should go ahead and do that. So I’ll give you an example. We have sales reps out on the road. As of last week, we felt in Australia that that was an acceptable risk as long as we were doing social distancing. We’re now moving that team to doing video meetings, because whilst it might technically still be possible for them to be out on the road if they can’t meet those clients by video, we’re starting to say, “Look, it’s just getting too grave for us. We want to be on the right side of this decision-making.” So the same could be true, construction meetings, as new business meeting, try to do it by video if you can. If that’s not possible, then the government advice is you can carry on working and you can go, meet that person subject to social distancing.

    Leigh: Okay. A question from Rachel. What is best practice if you have an employee who has been in the office who suspects they have coronavirus but has been told by their doctor that they won’t be tested until the employee has developed respiratory issues?

    Ed: Good question. COVID standard response at the moment. So the government advice on this if someone has been in your workplace who suspects that they have coronavirus and have, presumably, therefore, gone home on sick leave, they’re in some form of self-isolation at home, but they’re being told they can’t be tested at this time. The government guidance on that is to, first of all, see who has had contact with that employee. If you’re in a small office and it’s just about everyone, it is to monitor health and see if anyone else has symptoms. If they do, then they should be going home on sick leave as well. But it’s technically a requirement to shut your office, shut your workplace. It’s to monitor the situation carefully, and people should go home as they experience symptoms.

    Leigh: Okay. A question from Sally Ann and Amanda’s also following. Are you obliged to pay public holiday leave while an employee is stood down or on unpaid leave?

    Ed: That’s a good question. On unpaid leave, the situation is you’re not accruing leave. But on a stand-down situation, you are accruing leave. So yes, you should get an accrual for that public holiday pay, and you should be paid it technically. It’s gonna be interesting to see what happens over Easter as to whether there’s any negotiation on particular awards and things like that. We’re keeping an eye on that carefully.

    Leigh: Okay. A question from Ronald. “If my part-time role is not needed due to government restrictions, is it enough to write a stand-down letter so that employee can access Centrelink help?”

    Ed: So could you say that again, Leigh, just so I can…?

    Leigh: Sure.

    Ed: A part-time employee.

    Leigh: They’re not needed due to the government restrictions. Can Ronald write a stand-down letter so he can access Centrelink help?

    Ed: So this is a question from Ronald, part-time employee not needed due to government restrictions. That, to me, is a bit gray, Ronald, if you’re saying that there has been a business stoppage because of government restriction so your business has been stopped from operating. Say, for example, you are a restaurant or cafe and you are no longer able to do internal service, and consequently, this wait staff member, that would be broadly covered by the stoppage provisions, we are saying. If it’s just that your business has suffered a downturn, then that person doesn’t get caught by the stand-down provision. So what you would do in the latter example is you would agree with that employee for them to go on unpaid leave if that’s what they want to do, and you’d write them a letter explaining that to take to Centrelink to see.

    Leigh: Okay. This one’s from Tamara Lee. “How can we reduce our wage costs with employees if work has started to slow but not stopped? Can we stand down one person if we’re still operating?”

    Ed: So, again, you can’t stand down someone just because your work has started to slow. So the question is, can we stand down one person if our work is slowing but hasn’t stopped? If your work is slowing but hasn’t stopped, at this stage, those stand down provisions are unlikely to be available to you, in which case, you would be needing to negotiate with the employees, and you can do this on an individual basis for ways in which you can minimize your ongoing cost. Keep an eye on Treasurer Frydenberg’s position today, because that might solve your problems. But as it stands at the moment, the existing package seems to only offer about 10% cost support from the government on employing people, and that might not be enough, in which case, you might need to negotiate something like unpaid leave.

    Leigh: Okay. This is a question from Catherine, a tricky one. “I had an employee off sick last week. I asked her for medical clearance, but the doctor would not supply it in case the employee contracted coronavirus at a later day. Can I bring her back into the workplace but keep her at a distance, or should I keep her away from the workplace altogether?”

    Ed: There’s some perversity in this. So this is the first time I’ve heard of sick certificates not being provided. It’s sort of dark humor or irony in that, I suppose. So doctors not providing sick certificate on the basis that they’re worried that the person might later contract COVID, is that person fit to work? Now, if the person’s not fit to work, they’re not fit to work whether or not they have COVID or whether they have some other form of illness. So the test is not whether they have medical certificates saying they do or don’t have COVID. The test is whether they are fit to work. If that person is saying that they feel unwell and you should not have them tend work, if they have had COVID-like symptoms and they have gone home on that basis, the recommendation from the government is that they self-isolate for 14 days. So they shouldn’t come into work during that period either. Hopefully, that answers the question. So the medical certificates, not the only thing you should be considering in this. That’s not the answer to all the concerns. If someone has been feeling ill with COVID-like symptoms, they’ve got to self-isolate anyway, regardless of what the doctor says.

    Leigh: A question from Angela and Mark. If employee gets sick while on stand down, are they entitled to the accrued sick leave while the business is not operating?

    Ed: So there’s already been a stand down is the question, and the employee gets sick during that period, are they entitled to accrued sick leave? And the answer is no. If they get sick after the stand down, if they’re already on sick leave when stand down occurs, they should carry on getting paid their sick entitlement. There’s a specific provision in the Fair Work Act, which basically says if you’re in another form of leave and you’ll leave sick leave at a point at which stand down occurs. You should carry on getting paid for that period of leave.

    Leigh: Okay. Another construction aligned question from Kathy in Queensland. Are tradesmen allowed to go into people’s homes if the occupier has not been overseas, they’re not in quarantine or isolation, and they feel well?

    Ed: Yes. Subject to social distancing, tradesmen can go into people’s homes if the occupier is showing that signs and symptoms. It’s not otherwise self-isolating. Obviously, if it’s their home, it’s their choice. But I did a session with a big group of tradies the other night, discussing their businesses, and a lot of them are actually seeing an upswing in business at the moment as people are needing more and more help at home with things like blocked drains, difficulties with their electrics with more burden on the system, and so forth. So, yes, it is an absolute requirement, and I suspect that even if we went further than we are today, the services would be considered essential.

    Leigh: This one is from Kirsty. What about casual employees? If you cannot give them shifts, you aren’t standing them down. You just aren’t offering them shifts. Is this correct?

    Ed: The question is about casual employees, you’re not giving them shifts, you’re not standing them down, how do you deal with them essentially? And the answer is yes. A casual employee, you’re under no obligation, true casual employee, no, under no obligation to give them shifts, in which case, you would just stop giving them shifts. And probably, in advance, looking at any cost-saving measures that you might go through with your more permanent staff. So, yeah, the short answer is casuals are typically easier to deal with on this basis, and I think, probably, you’ll find that they’re the ones that are predominating in the new start queues at the moment.

    So I’m just gonna answer one more question, just reading one here that’s popped up from Rachel Smith. She says, “The PM originally said that stand down of staff was an option. According to one of my employees, we have now provided a letter of stand down noted that the staff member will take their annual leave.” First, she needed this for the Centrelink payment. Sorry, I’m gonna just click More. Have I done the wrong thing? So there’s a few subquestions wrapped up in that with a health warning. Rachel, I hope you don’t mind me calling you out on this, but I wouldn’t be following what your employees is saying at this time. I’d be getting official advice on it. But if…first of all, stand down only available. Once again, if your business has been stopped typically by government instructions, businesses that have been closed down by the government essentially may well access those stand-down provisions.

    If they need to access those stand-down provisions…sorry, I’ve just lost the question. If they need to access those stand-down provisions, then there is no obligation to pay out annual leave at that time. It would be surprising to me if Centrelink is saying that you’re not allowed to get Centrelink until your annual leave is being paid out. Because actually, paying out annual leave, cashing out annual leave has different rules under different awards, so you’d have to be very careful to do that anyway. So on a true stand down, you’re not obliged to start paying out annual leave or any other entitlements at that point.

    And one final…it’s a question I’ve seen just out of the corner of my eye pop up, one for our clients. So a few people are saying, “What’s Employsure doing about client fees during this period?” I’d urge you if you do have questions on that to reach out to our client experience team, [email protected], to ask them, and employsure.co.nz as well for our New Zealand clients. Ask them about Employsure’s hardship package for clients, and they can explain the different possibilities for you. We’re very conscious that we act for small business. We wanna help you as far as we can with your employment issues during this time, but we also don’t wanna burden you with costs to the extent that we can support you during this period in different ways. So please reach out to that team if you need our help.

    And other than that, what we will do, guys, is go through the questions that are still coming thick and fast, answering those over the course of the day. And thank you once again for all of your interest and your support to this live stream. I’ll carry on doing it for as long as it seems useful to you. As long as there are people watching, we’ll be doing it. And I’ll see you again tomorrow. In the meantime, employsure.com.au/coronavirus, employsure.co.nz/coronavirus. Cheers. Bye-bye.

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